NavMesh Hell

NavMeshHell03

Take a good look at the picture above. It’s my definition of NavMesh Hell. It involves three cells and stairs on top of that. It took me half an hour to finish. With Oblivion’s Construction Set things like these took a couple of seconds. We had something called PathGrid, which specified where NPC’s could walk. Followers could still follow the player around wherever he went, even without PathGrid. Not so in Skyrim. If there’s no NavMesh, no NPC can walk on there, and that includes followers. Yay!

It’s my honest opinion that NavMesh doesn’t make NPC’s act more natural than in Oblivion either. They still walk into statics, stand on chairs and take weird routes. So what’s the gain really to move over to this beast of a system? Just time-consuming, completely non-understandable and unintuitive for new modders and generally irritating with error messages popping up even after you’ve done the “Check NavMesh” routine. It’s a real turn-off, I tell you.

So many things with modding this one have gotten so time-consuming and just plain no-fun.

10 responses to “NavMesh Hell

  1. It is almost like Bethesda actually hates modders. And if you think about it, they might, modders have been making them look bad for years now with their mods that fix, improve and outright make their “Masterpieces” better.

    I am almost certain the creation kit was made by someone who thought to him/herself, “They wanna mod our games? They think we did a bad job. I see how it is. Ungrateful little piss ants, think they can do better. Let’s see them work through this! MUHAHAHAH”

    • LOL, yeah, that’s pretty much what I’m thinking too. “Wanna try and compete with ESO, Evil within and Wolfenstein with yer puny little mods!? Haha! Look at us make it impossible for ya, and at the same time, scare away new potential modders!” I’m scared to see what the next Elder Scrolls will be like in this department.

      I hope it doesn’t go the way of Total War though that used to have these awesome, splendid super mods like Third Age, Roma Surrectum and Stainless Steel, and now, with the later games there are only some small retexture mods to be found and some little function tweak. CA says Rome II Total War is its most modded game ever. Maybe. But look at the mods. You see, the old mods, for the old Total War games, the real mods, are still competing with their brand new games! Mods sell games, yes, but old games and not the new flashy, expensive ones. Economically it’s kinda sound for them to cut around the moddability then, isn’t it? This, while also bragging about how they support modding!

      I’m not worried though. There are new moddable games popping up every day! If Elder Scrolls goes the way Total War went, and I do hope not, I’m going elsewhere for modding fun. I’ve found a couple of potentials already.

  2. Crossing 3 times a border for a single navmesh path … argh, that’s really the hell. I avoid borders whereever I can but in your mod it is impossible of course.

    And I hope that TES Games will be forever moddable for I am so in love with TES … I tried other games but always came back. Oblivion is my all-time favorite.

    • Yes. I hope they remain as moddable as they are, because I’ve been putting down a lot of energy myself into this game series since Daggerfall and I’d hate to lose it. I’d be interested in modding something else as well though. Right now, a game called Planet Explorers is something I’m following closely. Also, the next Mount and Blade Bannerlord seems to be getting decent tools for creating worlds. Saints Row is a favourite series of mine which is just starting to launch some tools as well. But yeah, there’s nothing like the Elder Scrolls. It’s in a league by itself.

  3. I don’t think they intended to make it harder. They did, but they also brought improvement to the game’s AI. In Oblivion, the pathgridding allowed NPC’s to walk into walls, walk into each other, knock things down, stand on tables, etc. Nav meshing went a long way to correct this sort of behavior. It is harder to do, but unfortunately that is part of trying to make the NPC’s more realistic. Some people don’t like nav meshing because of it. I don’t find it too hard, just a little time consuming. But it has its benefits as well. Mannequins, for instance. When I put in a house that has mannequins in it, I can nav mesh close to where the mannequin will stand, then leave a gap. I then nav mesh under where the mannequin will be, creating a sort of island. The idea is that the mannequin is on nav mesh, but there is a non meshed gap between him and the rest of the home. So he stays put, rather than roaming around the house. I don’t really want the bastard stealing my loot or rummaging around in my underwear drawer. 😀

    But I do feel your pain. Nav meshing can be very time consuming.

    • LOL OK. I didn’t know that about the Mannequins. I’ve read somewhere that they’re unreliable though. I wouldn’t want them to look under my Skyrim bed either, so thanks for the advice on how to make them stay nicely put. I guess NavMesh has its ups though and once you really get used to it, like I’ve gotten, it’s something done kinda fast and efficiently too.

  4. I feel your pain, I’m going through the same situation I’m also building a new world space, and I can’t build triangles after some point, like from 0 to -1 on the grid it just complete stops, and I think I need to make some Dividers the green dividers you have in this picture, but how do you generate those so I can keep on adding navmesh? any suggestions and or help would be appreciated.

    • Sorry for the late answer! The green dividers, the crossing over points between NavMesh cells, are created automatically as you join four nodes. If you want to join two cells, you should join two nodes from cell number one, together with two from cell number two. The green bar is then generated when you click “Finish NavMesh for this cell”. It’s a pain to get the nodes on top of each other.

      • Thank you so much Antiscamp my Island now has navmesh, thanks for getting me through this navmesh hell! I’ll be sure to credit you! Thank you sir! and can’t wait for the release of Azura’s Watch! 🙂

      • You’re welcome. Is that island you’re creating something you will release? In that case, be sure to tell me, so I can come and have a look 🙂

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